Between Epstein Island and Iran, Where Does Europe Stand?
The below transcript is from Prof. Alexander Dugin’s latest episode of the Radio Sputnik Escalation Show.
Radio Sputnik, Escalation Show Host: The main topic of this episode remains unchanged and will likely be with us for a long time to come. We are talking about the war in the Persian Gulf, the war in the Middle East. There is no other way to describe what is happening: this is not just a conflict or a temporary escalation — it is a full-fledged war. Since we intend to discuss it in detail, let me ask: in your opinion, is everything that is currently happening in the region truly serious and likely to last?
Alexander Dugin: It seems to me that in our volatile world, where everything is on the brink and hanging by a thread, we may face the most incredible twists and turns. Therefore, I do not believe any analysis that claims “this is long-term, and we know for sure” or “this is about to end, and we know for sure.” I don’t take that kind of responsibility upon myself. I believe we need to follow events, try to understand their meaning, and see how they unfold. Predictions that everything will end in six months or last indefinitely constantly fall apart. It seems to me that it’s not very responsible to make such predictions. The war is simply going on and on; it hasn’t ended.
Let’s compare: Trump originally intended it to end within a few hours, then a few days, but it has already lasted two weeks and is unfolding completely differently from that 12-day war between Israel and Iran that took place just under a year ago with US involvement. This is a different war in every respect; it is incomparable to the previous one. It is a radical war that has already inflicted colossal losses on Iran: virtually the entire religious, political, and military leadership of the country has been destroyed, people have died, and there is a massive bombing campaign targeting Iranian cities and economic facilities. Iran is responding with unprecedented resilience: it is not surrendering and, most importantly, is not entering into negotiations with the aggressor. Iran is regularly and massively bombing Israel. This information is censored because most of the American press is on the side of the US — they are participants in this conflict — so America is hiding the true state of affairs in Israel. Israel is gradually turning into Gaza, meaning more and more economic, military, and civilian facilities are being destroyed.
A real upheaval is brewing, so I do not rule out that we will see a regime change not in Iran, but in Israel — precisely because Netanyahu has disappeared, and they are trying to explain his absence somehow. In some cases, this is undoubtedly a fabricated hoax; in others, it is difficult to determine the truth, but in any case, something is happening in Israel: with Ben-Gvir, with Netanyahu, with society, with military strategy, and simply with the population — things we do not yet know about.
Judging by the fragmentary information, which is heavily censored in the West, Israel is gradually turning into Gaza. Iranian missiles are reaching their targets, piercing the “Iron Dome” and hitting their targets. Which ones exactly? To what extent? In my view, it is impossible to say anything definitive on such a scale. The Iranians present their perspective, the West presents its own. By all accounts, the damage Israel is currently sustaining is far greater than what was anticipated or reported in the West, though, of course, less than according to Iranian sources. The truth lies somewhere in the middle, but this is already very serious damage, which Israel certainly did not plan for during the first 12-day war with Iran. And just how extensive are the losses? It is difficult to assess at this point, but it is quite evident that Iran employed highly effective tactics: it closed the Strait of Hormuz, struck key economic and communications hubs in Arab countries, and targeted US embassies, intelligence centers, and energy facilities.
In other words, Iran — although unable to reach its main adversary, the US, as since it truly lacks the power to do so — has delivered highly effective strikes against local military bases and facilities from which attacks against it were launched, thereby completely shifting the balance of power in this situation. This shift has occurred not so much through military means, though military action was involved, as through economic ones. The closure of the Strait of Hormuz, as well as the possible blockage by the Houthis of another strait — the Bab el-Mandeb Strait, that is, access to the Red Sea — effectively puts the entire global energy system at risk. The Americans themselves, through their Ukrainian proxies, blew up Russia’s Nord Stream pipelines; the world had already been cut off from Russian oil by harsh sanctions, and now it is losing a second source of hydrocarbons, the Middle East, which is now blocked. This will deal a colossal blow to the global economy, and it is already being dealt. In other words, Iran has chosen a method of waging war that truly forces the enemy to reconsider its actions.
And here we see signs of panic in the White House, because Trump is now changing his statements every day, several times a day. One moment he boasts that he’ll solve the problem with Iran single-handedly, the next he says, “Come on, everyone, help us patrol the tankers in the Strait of Hormuz,” and he invites — just think about this — China to join. That is, not only the European countries, which he has just berated, humiliated, and called the worst names, but now China, too, must clean up the mess left by his completely unprovoked aggressive action against the Iranian people and state. And what do we see? Everyone is refusing to do this. Some have been wavering: Starmer, Macron, Merz — they’d say they’d send ships, then they wouldn’t. Now we see that even Meloni is refusing to participate, even though she is, generally speaking, an ally of Trump. It turns out that Trump doesn’t really understand what he’s doing.
And now more and more posts are appearing across American social media: “We are ruled by a madman, we are ruled by a maniac who has lost his mind, a paranoid.” And if we recall those dark stories surrounding the Epstein case, the picture becomes truly monstrous: at the helm of a nuclear power stands an unpredictable, deranged maniac whose statements and actions follow no logic, not even the most basic. Never mind logic — he does one thing in the morning, another in the afternoon, says something else in the evening, and the next morning it all starts over again. This applies to his games with tariffs and sanctions. It seems as though the world’s greatest power is now led by a seriously ill, mentally unstable individual who apparently also has a criminal, terrifying “trail” of crimes behind him.
So, how should we project and predict the situation going forward? It all started with a single calculation: that Iran would quickly begin negotiating on American terms, essentially admitting defeat and accepting US demands. But things turned out differently. Far more radical forces have come to power. Right now, the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps is, in essence, leading this war — these are ruthless people who have lost their spiritual and political leader, as well as their children. And Iran, in my view, will stand its ground until the very end. And if it stands its ground until the very end, then no one knows for sure what exactly “the end” means in this situation. Whether it’s nuclear strikes or a ground operation, and whether it will have any effect—that’s also impossible to say. Will Israel survive, will it last a little longer, or will it simply cease to exist as a state in the near future? After all, if we compare Israel to Iran, let alone the Islamic world, we realize that it is simply a small American military base — very active, very bold, but, by and large, it is not a country, not a state, and not a civilization. It is a kind of networked community that survives by manipulating other countries: America through its lobbies, Europe, and the Arab world.
That is, if this conflict is now increasingly becoming a clash of civilizations and will ultimately turn into one, and the religious factor on both sides is only growing with each passing day, I think it is reasonable to assume that Israel will be wiped off the face of the earth. Strictly speaking, this state in its current form has not existed for very long. In many ways, it is an artificial construct that, in essence, serves as a kind of Western proxy in the Middle East.
To what extent will it be defended, and what will be left to defend there? Well, maybe something will remain. But everything is taking on an increasingly ominous character, and, in my view, we have reached a point where one of the sides — either Israel or the US — could launch a strike with tactical nuclear weapons on Iranian territory. If Iran continues to act just as effectively and successfully, it will, of course, suffer enormous losses, and Iranian cities will also come under attack, but look at the map: compare Iran and Israel. Israel, compared to Iran, is much smaller than Gaza is compared to Israel itself. We see that Israel has turned Gaza into a wasteland. Theoretically, turning Israel into another Gaza is entirely possible. Especially since everyone else is gradually being drawn into this war, directly or indirectly. Some say they won’t support Trump now. By the way, Japan refused to send its fleet there to patrol ships in the Strait of Hormuz, and then Trump declares: this isn’t our business at all; we have enough oil of our own, and if you need oil, go and patrol it yourselves.
He started all this; he struck Iran. He provoked these retaliatory actions, which hit his own allies — the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Bahrain, and Kuwait — and now he says: “I’m washing my hands of it; I have enough oil of my own; if you have any problems, go and defend your own tankers in the Strait of Hormuz yourselves.” It just doesn’t make any sense.
We’ve seen various leaders in America and Europe, and we’ve had various leaders of our own — some were on borderline mental stability, that’s understandable; such things happen in the world. But what we’re seeing today — that creature currently at the helm of America — is truly cause for immense alarm, because there’s no logic to his actions. Today he says one thing, tomorrow he says something else, and the day after that, something else entirely. So far, he hasn’t turned his fury against us, hasn’t directed his frenzied outburst of aggression at us; moreover, he’s somehow holding back on this issue—he clearly believes that one must act in order. Right now, he already has two active fronts: Latin America, Venezuela, and Cuba, which he needs to hold onto — he is preparing for an invasion by imposing sanctions and organizing a blockade. He is directly embroiled in the war in the Middle East, which shows no signs of ending, and further down the agenda there is China and Taiwan. The Ukrainian issue is clearly not a priority for him right now. But if these aggressive actions were to succeed, everything would simply be moving closer to us.
We need to understand this clearly: Iran is now a shield for us and for China, because we are next. And, of course, for Trump to launch aggression on all fronts, especially in his current state of incompetence, is simply too much. But we need to understand who we’re dealing with. Any notion that we can somehow negotiate with this system, that we can find common ground with these forces — all of that has collapsed. We tried, we did our best, and, by the way, we did it very correctly. Because when Trump came in, he set out a fairly sound agenda, and quite decent, serious, and consistent people rallied around him. Now he’s driven them all away—he fired the last ones just yesterday. He said: “I only have my friend Mark Levin, Laura Loomer, and Lindsey Graham, and everyone else who doesn’t like these friends of mine is hated by all of America, including conservatives, the right, and the left.” First, this trio — they’re freaks, physically ugly; second, they’re absolutely repulsive, they have zero charisma. In other words, all the decent people in Trump’s circle have left or aren’t commenting on anything now. JD Vance, Tucker Carlson, Megan Kelly have all taken a new stance.
Here’s what I want to say: Trump is in a hopeless position. That’s what needs to be understood. Therefore, the way he behaves both in war and in international politics in general is extremely dangerous. We need to be extremely cautious in such a situation.
Host: Let’s try to discuss this in a bit more detail, since there are many aspects of what you’ve said that warrant attention. Let’s start with the US and Israeli attack on Iran and Iran’s retaliatory strikes against the Middle Eastern monarchies. According to the latest information, the GDP of Kuwait and Qatar has already fallen by 14% and continues to decline: oil refineries are closing, and the entire oil industry in the region is stagnating. It is obvious that Iran is doing this deliberately. Judging even by Donald Trump’s words, which you quoted, he also agrees that the Gulf monarchies are no longer of interest to him as a source of oil. My next question is: who, in your opinion, benefits from this conflict? After all, the public, formal reasons were fabricated — we all understand that no one is even mentioning Iran’s nuclear weapons anymore. How would you define the original idea behind this conflagration? Who was supposed to win, who wants to win, and how?
Alexander Dugin: It seems to me that we are living on several levels at once: geopolitics, economics, and religious ideology. We generally believe that religious ideology is a whim that means nothing, because only material forces rule. But that is a mistake. The three parties to this conflict are largely motivated by visions of the end times, and these visions are diametrically opposed.
On the one hand, there is the idea of “Greater Israel” supported by Netanyahu: this is the war of the last days that he is waging against the so-called Amalek — Iran. In this struggle, the result must be the coming of the Messiah, and certain rituals are being prepared for this. The Sanhedrin has been established, red cows have been brought in, which must be sacrificed, and preparations are underway for the construction of the Third Temple. A high priest is being raised who does not touch the ground and is carried on a palanquin. An explosion is being prepared at the Al-Aqsa Mosque, and just two days ago, for the first time in Israel’s history, religious services were banned during Ramadan. This is the reality of Israeli policy, which uses any means necessary to advance its messianic project.
Christian Zionism within Trump’s circle has also become a dominant force. Paula White, the leader of the evangelical dispensationalists who holds services at the White House, says that prophecy is being fulfilled, the end of the world is coming, which is why Israel is so important: let’s pray for it and kill all its enemies. The extent of religious fanaticism in Israel and the US should not be underestimated. Previously, this seemed like a minor whim, but now it has become a factor in major politics. Iran responds in kind, considering Trump and Netanyahu to be the Dajjal, the enemy. Geopolitics takes a back seat here.
Nevertheless, there is a certain logic to it. If Trump wants to establish the United States’ sole dominance, then he has an interest in severing economic ties between Russia and the rest of the world. Here, he is consistently following Biden’s line: sanctions, a ban on purchasing our oil, attacks on our tankers — he is encouraging all of this. On the other hand, all that remains is to shut down the second global energy production hub: the Middle East. America has its own oil and gas, and it is ready to sell them at exorbitant prices. Plus there’s Venezuela, which Trump considers already captured and occupied along with all its reserves. There you have an alternative source of global energy. This is a rigid, unipolar, hegemonic model.
The manner in which all this is being carried out resembles a paranoid postmodernist show or TV series about a bloodthirsty killer. The combination of the radical eschatology driving Israel, geopolitical conflict, and shifts in the energy balance paint a grim picture: Russia remains cut off from the world, a second source of resources is being taken out of commission, and all of this so that America can establish itself as the world’s hegemon, reigning over all in the coming “messianic times.”
Host: Let’s continue our conversation, but from a different angle. Trump is set to visit China; there are less than three weeks left until then. On the one hand, Beijing is the United States’ main geopolitical adversary — this is a fact that has been officially stated and is no secret. On the other hand, it is a country Washington cannot do without: China is the primary source of key resources and rare earth metals. Without them, American industry — from aviation to high-tech manufacturing — simply cannot function. How, in your opinion, can this dilemma be resolved in both Washington and Beijing? What impact could this visit actually have? There is even talk that China might force the US to adjust its policy in the Middle East by using its resource base as leverage. What are your thoughts on this?
Alexander Dugin: First of all, Trump announced today that he will not be traveling to China: his agenda is changing. What was planned three weeks in advance has been postponed until better times under current conditions — every minute counts here. Just recently, I was watching Western news channels: he said he wouldn’t go, let them send ships first.
In fact, there is a rational side to this: China is a massive pole in a multipolar world that must be reckoned with, just like Russia — for economic, political, military, and nuclear reasons. At the same time, it’s obvious that Trump doesn’t want to do that. He doesn’t want to reckon with anyone or anything, neither second-rate powers nor even first-rate ones. But so far, he hasn’t dared to start a direct conflict with China. Something is holding him back — perhaps the remnants of a previous, long-lost sense of reason. In principle, he isn’t ready to step onto such thin, confrontational ice.
Generally speaking, in his mind, the world is egocentric: there is only one decision-making center: himself. In fact, this is a very severe form of paranoia, where a person believes that only his “self” is consolidated and omnipotent, while everything else is an object of his power and will, which is obliged to obey. When someone does not obey, it provokes rage in him, a desire to take revenge and destroy. At the level of weaker targets, as he sees it, this succeeds: it succeeded with Maduro, it succeeded in eliminating Iran’s entire leadership, in supporting Israel in the destruction of Gaza, and now it is succeeding in subjugating Cuba and humiliating European partners by forcing them to act in the most pitiful manner. With those against whom he can pursue a policy of a paranoid center — where he is everything and the rest are nothing — he does so.
He views India and Japan as slaves. Apparently, the experience of Epstein’s island — this rule of absolute domination over children, over the weak, over victims — instilled in him such a monstrous, criminal manner of behavior. Trump behaves as if he were surrounded by Epstein’s victims: meek, powerless, unable to fight back. Epstein, to prevent his victims from biting him, knocked out their teeth — can you imagine? And Trump was a participant in these pedophile orgies. What is going on in his head? Who are we even dealing with? Right now, America is horrified by this.
We are dealing with a man of this psychological makeup. How does he view Russia and Iran? I think he sees both us and China as very dangerous competitors who could bear witness to these crimes and are capable of responding. That’s why, I believe, they truly hate us. But something is holding them back from attacking directly: too much depends on China and Russia in the economy, the military sphere, and politics. And he has another front to work on. Or, to be more precise, perhaps it’s no longer a front at all. I’m referring to Europe.
Host: You touched on the issue of Europe, which has once again found itself in an extremely strange position. First, Trump called on Europeans to help, then took offense at Starmer for offering help “at the wrong time,” and so on. In your view, does Europe today possess any agency at all — not only in its relations with Trump, but also in the context of the war in the Gulf, since it is Europe that suffers from this conflict in the first place? Has it retained the ability to influence any of the political developments currently unfolding?
Alexander Dugin: In this case, to continue the metaphor of Epstein’s island, Europe acts as an accomplice, as a guard or a laborer in the monstrous crimes committed by the main perpetrators. They have limited freedom, but in essence, they are simply employees of this island. They are not the main criminals, but they are not entirely victims either. Deep down, they might want to become “first-tier” players, but they understand that they can be cast aside at any moment and turned into victims. The Belgian Prime Minister spoke of the difference between a vassal and a slave, but in reality there is none: a vassal is treated with respect while being required to submit completely, whereas a slave is treated without any respect at all.
This is the position Europe finds itself in. If Trump wanted to pat it on the cheek and say, “Good, you serve me well, good job,” he would call it a “loyal vassal,” as he does when he is in a good mood. But if he gets angry, he treats his staff like slaves—he doesn’t pat them on the cheek, but bites them, hits them, throws an ashtray at their forehead.
The position of the vassal-slave is this: your master has changed, a madman has arrived, but what can you do? You can wait until he’s taken to a psychiatric clinic, or you can gradually sabotage things, saying that your department won’t carry out criminal operations. But then you’ll be fired or permanently relegated to the ranks of the victims. The contemporary European Union has little room to maneuver: I think they’re dreaming of the day when this nightmare will end, when the maniac will go away somewhere, and they can return to their status as proud vassals. For now, while Trump treats them like disobedient slaves, they try to resist, attempting to slip away from this chase to Epstein’s island, effectively finding themselves in the shoes of those forces that Trump treats as he pleases.
Here, everyone Trump deals with is de-subjectified: he is the sole subject, and everyone else is an object. Anyone who can be turned into an object, anyone who can be mocked with impunity, anyone who can be killed or raped— he does so. But Europe occupies an intermediate position: seemingly, these are also “guests” from the island who at any moment can become victims, reclassifying themselves from the class of rapists to the status of the raped. We, China, and great Iran — which is proves its dignity and unwillingness to become an object by refusing to be de-subjectified— are standing against this raging maniac. We are holding him back: our potential, our strategic nuclear weapons, our economy, our will, our president, and our society, which swears allegiance to traditional values, not Epstein’s values. We speak of sovereignty and are not prepared to play the role of vassals, even if we were to be pampered and coddled. We already tried our hand at this role in the 1990s, and we know how it ended.
Any negotiations with us and with China represent a severe psychological ordeal for Trump, because there he sees subjects. It is not so easy to de-subjectify us, and that is the main problem. What we need to do now is, while supporting Iran as much as possible, devise a counterstrategy, because such a world order cannot be allowed: we must figure out how to rein in this wild beast and place it in a secure zone.
Many people have been discussing how prescient our president was when he said that Kamala Harris would have been better. We all thought it was irony, assuming that Trump would do what he promised. It turned out our president was seeing the root of the matter. He is a remarkably perceptive man who sees further and deeper. What we are dealing with now is a global catastrophe: teetering on the brink of nuclear war precisely because a man who is frankly mentally unstable, with wild ideas, a deranged psyche, and obvious dementia, stands at the helm of a giant country. This is dangerous for everyone, so we need to think about how to save ourselves. By the way, it’s time for Europe to turn to us, because we are predictable.
Host: Let me continue on that very note. If we set Trump’s personality aside, we see that what is happening in the Middle East — an energy and economic blow — is inevitably leading Europe toward a full-scale catastrophe. Virtually all experts are writing about this. It turns out that the Europeans are walking to their own slaughter, just like lambs. I want to understand the reason for this behavior: is it a consequence of the short-sightedness and degradation of the elites, who simply do not realize that this crisis will bring them only impoverishment and economic collapse, or is it a conscious betrayal on the part of the European Union’s leadership, such as von der Leyen and others, who understand perfectly well where all this is leading, yet continue down this path? In your view, what is the real motivation behind Europe’s position, which is behaving so self-destructively?
Alexander Dugin: They simply have no choice. Do they really have one? They are simply part of this system; they are ordinary functionaries.
Host: But surely they can’t rise up against Trump, support Iran, Russia, China, and so on? Can you imagine that?
Alexander Dugin: No, of course not. Macron, that energetic politician whose orientation is unknown, or the BlackRock executive Merz, who looks like Himmler in a heavy sleep after death, or the absolute fool Starmer — are they supposed to take a stand for European sovereignty? All the politicians who could have moved in that direction — Schröder in Germany or figures in France like Mitterrand and Chirac — are gone. Those politicians were truly sovereign: even if they acted according to the rules of the Western world, according to Atlanticist rules, they possessed sovereignty.
Since then, there has been a series of rotations among European leaders, who have turned into mere puppets. They may be vain individuals, but they do not in the least reflect either the interests of European societies or the strategies of European geopolitics. In essence, they are part of a single American-centric system in which they have no freedom whatsoever. America’s globalist leaders framed this subordination of the EU elites in polite terms: they spoke of multilateralism, of cooperation, and claimed that “our partners’ opinions are very important to us.” It’s like an automated response: “Your opinion is very important to us,” but in reality, keep it to yourself.
Host: So, in your view, what is this: stupidity or betrayal?
Alexander Dugin: This is the result of a massive process. It didn’t happen overnight. It’s not just stupidity or betrayal. Europe effectively lost its sovereignty after 1945. As soon as the US became a superpower, it took responsibility over Europe’s major military-political and, later, economic issues, and the Old World’s authority only diminished. Of course, European leaders have repeatedly attempted to break free from this American hegemony and establish Europe as a sovereign actor with its own interests, goals, objectives, and values — just recall de Gaulle, who withdrew from NATO altogether. But these efforts failed, because Washington would say: “Why would you want to separate? We share common values; we respect you; you are our partners.” They were called partners, but in reality remained vassals who were treated “well.” “You don’t need to strengthen your own identity; that’s our job—we’ll think for you.” As they used to say in Germany: “Stop worrying about your conscience; the Führer thinks for you” — the same thing is happening now: “European leaders, Washington thinks for you.”
And they waited until a maniac appeared at the center of this system. Of course, they didn’t expect to find themselves under the thumb of a completely insane ruler who began to openly mock and humiliate them in public. He’s taking their energy resources, and when asked “why?” he replies: “I wanted to and I did it; there is no international law, there is only me and my idea of what is moral.” If you’re interested in oil—please, go to the Strait of Hormuz and fight the Iranians, but I’m staying out of it. It’s quite possible that any day now he’ll announce: “I’ve won, America has dealt a crushing blow, Iran no longer exists, I’m washing my hands of it.” And everything will remain the same: bombings of Israel, explosions at new bases. But Trump will insist that it’s all fake news. He’s already claiming that all the damage Israel is suffering is just artificial intelligence, that not a single rocket has penetrated the “Iron Dome,” that everything is fine. In such a hallucinatory, solipsistic world, you can declare victory for yourself and Europe will be left to deal with the consequences.
And where can she go? There’s zero freedom there. These leaders don’t like Trump, and who could possibly like him anyway? Looking at Melania Trump, I wonder: what’s going on in her mind? Who has she spent her life with? It’s truly terrifying. How can anyone love someone like that? You can tolerate it if you’ve been enslaved, but nothing more. She has such a stern expression because she understands: things are very bad; she is a victim. Perhaps she’s even sending signals when she says, “I’m a clairvoyant, I’m a visionary” —essentially screaming, “Save me.”
Host: Then she knows much more than we do…
Alexander Dugin: She definitely knows more than we do, and I think this knowledge is terribly ruining her life. But let’s leave her be. As for Europe, it has found itself in a position not even of a beloved wife, but of someone far more miserable on this Epstein Island into which the entire West has turned. European leaders have “fallen into a trap”: they didn’t want this, they dreamed of a different status, they wanted to be the ones setting the rules, but it didn’t work out. I don’t feel the slightest bit sorry for them. They deserve what’s happening to them, and even worse. That’s why we need to rely solely on our own strength, win this war, draw closer to our allies — Iran, North Korea, China — and seek other partners for a multipolar world. We must convince everyone who is still capable of exercising even a modicum of sovereignty of what threatens them if this hegemony persists, and build our multipolar world.
If revolutions occur in Europe and the local liberal, globalist elites are overthrown — well, I think we’ll extend a helping hand to them, a “lifeline,” or even a whole series of lifelines. But for that to happen, they must first deal with those on whom they have become dependent. The peoples of Europe are suffering twice over: they are ruled by maniacs who, in turn, have found themselves under the thumb of an even more terrifying maniac. Can you imagine what it’s like for them? The most important thing is that they’ve now even stopped being fed. Whereas vassals and slaves were at least provided with sustenance in the past, now the master has refused to feed them, and everyone else has no intention of stepping in to help. Epstein and Bill Gates once discussed what to do with the poor and concluded that they should be eliminated. In fact, perhaps that is exactly how this plan is working right now.
https://www.arktosjournal.com/p/between-epstein-island-and-iran-where